A Pittsburgh councilman's bid to stop public drinking -- and the kind of public urination alleged against Steelers tight end Matt Spaeth on Sunday -- ran into opposition in council discussions today after magisterial district judges questioned council's right to impose mandatory minimum fines.

Councilman Bruce Kraus' stiffened open-container legislation was up for a tentative vote today, but that was postponed for two weeks while the Law Department writes up an opinion on its legality. The debate bled into discussion of Mr. Kraus' new ordinance imposing a mandatory $500 fine for public urination, and inevitably to the Sunday citation of Mr. Spaeth and related charges against kicker Jeff Reed.

"Our esteemed Steelers feel that it's absolutely acceptable" to urinate in public on the North Side, said Mr. Kraus. "It is time to send a message, loud and clear. This is behavior we simply don't tolerate."

Magisterial District Judge Richard King, prime author of a letter from 11 district judges delivered to council today, said in a phone interview that council should legislate but should not set mandatory minimum fines.

"You're tying our hands. You're trying to blend the branches of government," he said. "Councilman Kraus is trying to -- because his impression is that the judges aren't tough enough -- be the adjudicator as well as the legislator."

Mr. Kraus' proposed ordinance would alter the punishment for drinking, carrying or possessing open containers of alcohol in public areas, or in private areas without the consent of the owner or tenant. Permitted block parties are excepted.

The fines are now up to $200 for a first violation, $300 for a second and $500 for subsequent citations, with the possibility of 24 to 72 hours in prison for repeat offenders. Mr. Kraus' legislation would eliminate the judge's right to reduce the fine.

"If our most visible people here in the city, our sports team members, think that it's acceptable to get out of their vehicle, urinate in public," he said, "we know that the message has not been sent clearly that we don't accept this behavior. . . . I am sorry that Magistrate King doesn't take the problem seriously."

"Anyone who knows me and knows how I've done the job for 16 years -- and I think the councilman has been on the job two or three years -- knows that I take the job seriously," countered Judge King.

Mr. Kraus has been on council since January 2008.

Police Lt. Thomas Atkins argued for higher fines. "I think we should increase the fine for at least a minimal amount," he said.

Council President Doug Shields, though, said a fine that would be "an annoyance" to an athlete with a multi-million-dollar contract could devastate some families.

"You become a little bit draconian, instead of practical," he said.

Council's vote comes days after Mr. Kraus released an 85-page report on improving the management of the bar-heavy South Side, including numerous possible changes in city code that would apply citywide. Tightening the open container fine was not one of the suggestions in the report.

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