In the first debate of Pittsburgh's mayoral election, Republican challenger Mark DeSantis repeatedly said he would listen to the people in formulating city policy.

He said it so often that it drew a laugh at one point from incumbent Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, who, for his part, said he already listens.

The two disagreed infrequently before an invitation-only audience of about 125 at the debate, sponsored by the Pittsburgh Civic Design Coalition.

Mr. DeSantis throughout said he would go to the people to hear what they want regarding economic development and building in the city. He took a jab at Mr. Ravenstahl's absence this week at a North Side meeting on the new casino.

"If you're going to call a meeting and engage in dialogue, you have to be there and hear what the residents have to say," Mr. DeSantis said.

Mr. Ravenstahl blamed his staff for a flier that erroneously implied he would attend the meeting. He was on a business trip to Boston at the time.

Mr. DeSantis said public perception is that government leaders in the city make decisions first, then try to happy-talk the public into agreeing with them.

"The generally held view here is that we don't have the dialogue," he said. He said the entire process of city decision making should be open.

"Honesty and openness is the only way this works," he said.

Mr. Ravenstahl replied that "to suggest that I or some other individual is making these decisions single-handedly is totally false." It was one of the few testy moments in the session.

The two agreed on major transportation issues: that Oakland and Downtown should be better linked by mass transit; that the subway extension to the North Side is a waste of money; and that the northerly portion of the Mon-Fayette Expressway is dead. Mr. Ravenstahl said the expressway wasn't even in the Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission's most recent request for federal funding.

They also agreed that the city is in a financial crisis. When Mr. Ravenstahl said the city will try to obtain federal money to improve mass transit to Oakland, Mr. DeSantis, a former lobbyist and aide to the late U.S. Sen. John Heinz, said the city was unlikely to succeed, because of the competition for federal dollars and the amount already dedicated to the North Shore subway extension.

Mr. DeSantis said he would mandate that both the new casino on the North Side and the new arena in the Lower Hill meet the U.S. Green Building Council's criteria for environmental certification, known as LEED, for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design.

Mr. Ravenstahl said the casino, being built by Don Barden, is not using public money and "he is not compelled to build a green building."

Instead, Mr. Ravenstahl said, he is going to work with Mr. Barden and the Penguins to persuade them to make the buildings environmentally friendly.

"I would rather take the cooperative rather than the contentious approach," he said. "I will continue to meet with Mr. Barden and the Penguins."

He said that Three PNC Plaza, which is being built on Fifth Avenue at Liberty Avenue, will be the world's tallest "green" building.

Mr. DeSantis said he would seek the community's views regarding the two major building projects, but also what people want done with blighted properties in their neighborhoods. He said he would also like to see a citywide inventory of historic properties and then explain to the owners the significance of their homes or businesses.

He said he would seek community input so many times that Mr. Ravenstahl laughed when Mr. DeSantis said he would see what the community wanted in response to a question about what to do with the old Mellon Arena site and the parking lots.

Mr. Ravenstahl said he has already met many times with people in the Hill District over that very question.

"Myself and the county executive have been meeting regularly with the organizations in the Hill District," he said. "We are going to continue to meet with them."

He said just over a year ago, when he took over as mayor after Bob O'Connor died, he embraced Mr. O'Connor's vision of the city and developed his own agenda. "I'll put my one-year record against any mayor previously."

The debate, moderated by Katherine Fink of WDUQ-FM Radio, will be aired on 90.5 WDUQ at 6 p.m. Oct. 7.

Not included in the debate were Libertarian candidate Tony Oliva and Socialist Workers candidate Ryan Scott. They did not meet the coalition's standards for candidate viability.